I completely agree. While OK Computer has some great moments (Karma Police, Exit Music, The Tourist, No Surprises), There are just more songs on the Bends that get me. Fake Plastic Trees, High& Dry, Bulletproof, Nice Dream, and especially Street Spirit are still among my favorite songs. I must say that I don't share your disdain for Hail to the Thief, but I have to agree it doesn't have the same playability that the two former do. And I"m not even going to mention Kid A or Amnesiac. Those two are just a little too repetitive-ambient-out-there for me and frankly, I don't really listen to them at all. So if I were to rank Radiohead albums, it would go something like this:
1. The Bends
2. Ok Computer
3. Hail to the Theif
4. Pablo Honey (that's how much I don't like the last two)
5. Kid A
6. Amnesiac

I have to disagree with your disdain for their latest album. While the overall playability couldn't top The Bends when it first came out (it was groundbreaking, after all), I have to say that I am burnt out on old Radiohead and have fully embraced OK Computer, Kid A, and Hail to the Thief.

So what if you don't like the title, the title doesn't like you either.

Hail to the Thief has content, man. Timely content that exposes the obfuscatory tactics of our government and the media. Hell, I don't care if you're a Red or Blue State kind of person, Hail to the Thief speaks to the majority of us and our implicit distrust of politicians. The lesson: be careful who you listen to.

What's more, the live perfomance of songs like There, There and 2 + 2 = 5 is awesome. Lights, chaos, and big drums; what more could you want? Hail to the Thief, if anything, shows the most musical maturity of any Radiohead album.

Furthermore, if all a person into is jangly guitar solos and sad vocals, they should lock themselves in a small room listen to Smashing Pumpkins, Toad the Wet Sprocket, or other some such early 90's sensation and pretend that it's fifteen years ago.

I should be studying, so my response will be brief. I will respond to you more fully at a later date, Expat, although, of course, far be it for me to impeach your opinion on any sort of music. Let me just say this, though.

1. The Smashing Pumpkins have a lot more to offer than guitar solos or sad lyrics, although they definitely deliver on both fronts.

2. More importantly, I could forgive that suggestion if it weren't for your later sin of lumping SP in with Toad the Wet Motherfucking Sprocket? C'mon, man, give me some respect here!

Ismael,

Please take your time. I will content myself with going through your previous posts on SP for the time being.

When you get a chance, then bring it, sucka!!!

Not that I expect musical sense from someone who counts the Smashing Pumpkins as their favorite band, but I disagree.

You can't talk about how you never skip a song and then rate one of the songs a 2. That's just not right. I will concede that Nice Dream is the weakest song, but it still gets at least a 3 (because of the awesome hard rocking breakdown).

Iron Lung and Bulletproof are also indispensable. Just sing along with Iron Lung sometime; and you'll see.

You do redeem yourself by noting the unbridled awesomeness that is Street Spirit. That is Radiohead's best song, as well as being a Top 5 Saddest Songs Ever.

For what it's worth, I'd rank them thusly:
Planet Telex, 4.
The Bends, 4.
High & Dry, 5.
Fake Plastic Trees, 4.
Bones, 4.
Nice Dream, 4.
Just, 4.
My Iron Lung, 4.
Bullet Proof, 4.
Black Star, 5.
Sulk, 4.
Street Spirit, 5.

At any rate, this is their best album and I won't entertain discussion to the contrary.

In fact, they go in this order: The Bends, OK Computer, Amnesiac, Hail to the Thief, Pablo Honey and Kid A (which only goes last because it was so damn inconsistent).

Mr. Expat,
I totally understand being burnt out on something. It's hard for me to listen to some songs, such as "Smells Like Teen Spirit," even though I know that, objectively, it's a good song. Still, being burnt out on The Bends doesn't make subsequent Radiohead efforts inherently better. At best, it makes them seem novel. That's good, but it doesn't make an album good or great.

Your second point is that Hail to the Thief (hereinafter HTTT) is timely. Well, that may be true, but I would interpret it as being dated rather than timely. Its clear focus on George W. Bush makes it an album that, twenty years from now, might seem irrelevant at best and, at worst, irrational liberal nonsense.

Your further point that there is a message to the music on HTTT is well taken. However, a well-intentioned message does not, in and of itself, serve to make the messenger less ugly. You could write a song with a great message but if the orchestration is cowbells and saws, I'm not going to like it. My point is just that having a good message (as HTTT may or may not have) doesn't make an album good.

I'll agree that the live performances of HTTT songs are awesome, but that goes more to the fact that Radiohead is a great live band than it does to the quality of the songs or the album.

Finally, I'm unsure what to make of your contention that HTTT shows musical maturity. Could you please elaborate?

So, in general, it seems that you're correctly praising things that are associated with HTTT rather than HTTT itself, which leaves serious questions about the validity of your contention that HTTT is the band's best effort. Therefore, I remain steadfast in my belief HTTT, while not bad, isn't Radiohead's best.

Kid A wins. That is all.

Santi,
I've reviewed the tracklist for Kid A and have to say that, while the phrase "that album fucking blows" might be overstating the case, Kid A is not a good album. Let's review:

1. Everything In Its Right Place. I have to say, this is a good song. 4/5.
2. Kid A. Utterly forgetable. 2/5.
3. The National Anthem. Excellent song. 5/5.
4. How To Disappear Completely. I refuse to listen to this song. It's violently depressing without having too many redeaming qualities. 2/5.
5. Treefingers. This isn't even a song, really. 0/5.
6. Optimistic. Good. I really like this one. 4/5.
7. In Limbo. Boring and unoriginal. 2/5.
8. Idioteque. Excellent! Really one of my favorites. 5/5.
9. Morning Bell. Why does this song even exist? Why? 1/5.
10. Motion Picture Soundtrack. Another good but not great one. 3.5/5.

That's an underwhelming average of 2.85. The album's just not that great. It's got some excellent songs, a few decent ones, and a lot of filler crap. It's sub-par, even compared to non-Radiohead albums. It's just not good.

Both it an Amnesiac have a feeling of half-completed mediocrity. It's as if they try to achieve something great but, in the process, succeed only at being lame and pretentious. I'm not opposed to leaving the straightforward guitar-based approach behind, but were songs like "Treefingers" really necessary? No, they weren't.

In the end, both albums are, when considered as wholes, completely superfluous.

Ismael,

Thank you for such a quick reply, but it seems we misunderstand each other. You are correct in your analysis: my post was on what makes HTTT a great album, not on which album is better. I have completely rejected your 5-Point Scale and total song average method. Using this kind of rating scale means that we cannot look at the album as a whole without first looking at each individual song; ergo we cannot see the forest for the trees, dig? This subsequently discounts all concept albums, movements of a symphony, et cetera.

We can compare this or that aspect of either The Bends or HTTT, look 20 years into the future and look back again. Then we can count on either of our highly subjective opinions to carry the day, but this method of comparison is flawed, even in something so often ephemeral and subjective as music.

Now I see that the kernel of our disagreement is this: Ultimately I find your conclusion that the latter album only amounts to a pile of historically irrelevant nonesense laughable. Allow me to explain then what I mean when I say 'musically mature'.

First, we can agree that Radiohead draws from several influences, can we not? We've got no-brainers like The Beatles or The Pixies, then some obscure choices, maybe a sprinkling of Bauhaus, Joy Division, even Morrisey or The Cure. Toward the middle of their career (so far), we've got lots of minimalist, atonal and electronic influences, possibly even some chance elements (see John Cage).

Second, based on the band's discography, we can see that there has been a steady gathering and rejection of varying influences over time. This sort of dynamism has had its soaring high points (The Bends, for you), and it's low points (Amnesiac, for you, me and everyone else), yet the band has powered through stage after stage of experimentation and has yet to break up or severely alienate it's fan base. The mere fact that we are having this discussion right now serves to back this up.

Now, here we are: Around two years into the release of Hail to The Thief. Liberal Nonsense? If we are to discount everything that disagrees with the Neo-Conservative movement's methodology (that is, be a lying dirty cheat and point at other people for the blame), then yes, HTTT it indeed that, but then so is every middle of the road Republican and Democrat...Oh, and every actual dyed-in-the-wool Liberal (hmmm, maybe about 10% or less of our country's population). This is far from the album's main focus, Ismael, and I think you know it.

Take "A Punchup at a Wedding", which I take to be an anthem against all rabble rousers of any political/apolitical stripe. The song is nothing special, but the bass groove is solid and the harmonies are pure gold. Thom says it loud and clear: "The pot will call the kettle black, it's a drunken punch-up at a wedding". Yeah.

Next, theres "Where I End and You Begin", where Thom Yorke lets loose some downright creepy thoughts on our Creator. To Mr. Yorke, this being is neither good nor evil, yet is alone, abandoned and wrathful; something Jonny Greenwood's guitar and synth work and Phil Selway's drums communicate masterfully.

Now I cannot agree that there are only a couple good songs on HTTT, but I will admit there are some songs I'd assume skip after extended plays. "Myxomatosis" makes me ill when I hear it, and I actually think it would be better served toward the beginning of the album than sandwiched at the end, or perhaps even dropped entirely. "We Suck the Young Blood": Also somewhat creepy, though I would keep this one, based on the conceptual nature of the album.

My point is, Radiohead's influences have soared well beyond the ephemeral and fantastic and landed somewhere in the real world of lies, misinformation, and deciet, with a smattering of spiritual dogma thrown in. What's more, it has done so in a way that is aesthetically pleasing and (for me) thought provoking on so many levels.

So say what you want about The Bends, Ismael, just don't dismiss because it doesn't fit into your scoring method.

Addendum (for those of you scoring on pragmatics):

Last sentence: "...just don't dismiss HTTT because it doesn't fit into your scoring method."

I'm sure there are more.

Also, the whole SP/Toad thing was just a cheap shot, I admit it, and not really indicative of Ismael's musical tastes, either.

Mr. Expat,
First, I want to introduce a potentially tangential discussion. How many concept albums are any good? I can think of one off the top of my head: Green Day's American Idiot. Others that I can think of, for example The Wall and Tommy, suffer from a sort of "story at the expense of the music" syndrome. They put the "story" of the concept album before the coherency of some of the songs and, as a result, you end up with what feel like "interludes" on a hip-hop CD. Things that might be entertaining at first but, on repeated listenings, suck.

Your point is well taken, however, that an album should be evaluated as an album. But, personally, I think HTTT fails on this level because, to me, the music (that is, the instrumentation, melodies, harmonies, rhythms, arrangements, etc.) just isn't very good. The concept, the influences, the high-minded-ness, the innovatio--there are all things for which I think Radiohead deserves to be commended. With HTTT, they tried to do something daring. As with any time that someone attempts something so brash, the efforts have its supporters and its detractors. Ultimately, I don't buy it--to me, it comes off as bad music cloaked in intellectual masturbation. You do buy it, though, and that's fine.

That shouldn't be interpreted as a slight on your or your tastes. This is simply a judgment call, I think, a matter for taste. I loved Superman Returns, others hated it. People who hated it aren't stupid, they were just looking for something else.